“What do you do when you have the world at your feet?” is the question posed by rapper and poet Kojey Radical in the opening lines of his latest album.
“Don’t look down” is both his answer and the name of an acclaimed record that finds him battling with the success his artistry has brought. Ironically, its bold display of ambition and genre-bending mix of hip–hop, jazz, gospel and R&B may have made any self-doubt he might be feeling more acute, with MOBO and Mercury Prize nominations now landing at his feet.
UK producer Swindle and virtuoso guitarist Ashton Sellars were at the helm as executive producers on a project featuring an extensive cast of collaborators that includes Ezra Collective’s Femi Koleoso, MNEK, Benjamin AD, Dende, Ghetts and many, many more.
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“Myself and Ashton met at the first songwriting sessions for the album,” says Swindle on their connection. “There were various camps as part of the writing, with the first one aimed at bringing people in as a process of discovery. Kojey and Ash really hit it off creatively, and we just naturally ended up working on the rest of the project.”
“I’ve known Swindle for a while,” continues Ash. “I got the call to come up for two days, this turned into two and a half weeks…”
“… Which turned into two and a half years,” laughs Swindle.
“The making of the album was pretty special, we got along so well creatively, musically and just hanging out,” Ashton adds. “The synergy was there from the beginning.”
Listening to Don’t Look Down, there’s a palpable sense of detail and a sumptuous musicality that runs throughout the soul, hip–hop and live instrumentation of its 16 tracks. Framed around the narrative of a house party, it sees Kojey questioning his life as he enters his thirties, struggling with the twin pressures of the music industry and new fatherhood.
Both Swindle and Ashton have rich musical histories to draw on. As a producer, Swindle came up via pirate radio, releasing music on labels like Brownswood and Butterz while penning scores for productions like Queenie and Fightland. Ashton is a virtuoso guitarist hailing from New Zealand, with a stacked CV that features production credits from the likes of Burna Boy, Chance the Rapper and Denzel Curry.
Much of the album was made between Decoy Studios in Suffolk and recording sessions at Abbey Road Studios. Playlists, inspirations and conversations were shared before ideas were mined from scratch as part of songwriting camps.
“At the very beginning, there’s no vision as such,” Ashton says. “You’re just throwing paint at the wall until the picture of what the record could resemble starts to take shape.”
With so many tracks making up the meat of the album alongside its long list of collaborators, part of the producers’ role was to help steer the sessions in the right direction, maintaining momentum while ensuring that everyone’s voices were heard.
“It’s an open space but at the same time we’re working towards this hierarchy of ideas and prioritising those that really resonate with Kojey,” says Swindle.
“As people come into the fold, we push things but we do it gently in a way where people feel free to contribute. I always say it’s important to be producing the environment as much as it is the music, particularly when so many writers, musicians and producers are coming through. The one constant is focusing on making sure the environment is ready, it feels free but focused.”
“Part of your producer role is to make sure there is excitement in the room about what we’re all making,” adds Ashton. “You can often end up with two tracks that might fill the same shoes, but which one excites you more or supports the album’s themes? You can only find out as you progress.”
Don’t Look Down was recorded and mixed in Logic Pro with a Moog Source – an early ‘80s synth best known for providing the bassline to New Order’s Blue Monday – behind much of the synth work. Elsewhere, a Neumann U87 was leant on to clearly capture Kojey’s intricate rhymes, with a dbx 160 shaping the vocal dynamics throughout.
“The dbx 160 was something which I’d not used in this way before,” Swindle recalls. “But Dr Dre used it on his 2001 album, it was one of the references and was something a bit different for us.”
“We discovered the potential of the Moog Source on Kojey’s past album Reason to Smile – we used it on the bass sounds and it’s become a real staple. But a lot of what we used was fairly simple.”
A clear ambition for both Ashton and Swindle was to keep the production sounding as organic as possible as the backdrop to Kojey’s rich, sometimes gritty narrative.
“At the beginning, the instrumentation was just guitar, drums, bass and keys,” says Ashton. “We had Femi from Ezra Collective there, he would record drums for an hour, then we’d go through all of his takes and take little sounds to start a song or add to get this warmth and funk.”
“It was stripped-back, it wasn’t too sample-heavy or relying on things like Splice – we were after a more traditional sound than modern software.”
Swindle agrees: “This is how we naturally work, it’s what we do and reflects the kind of people we had involved. Hosting the camps was a different way of working as opposed to doing spot sessions in random rooms. We invested time in finding the sound and building it up too.”
An orchestra was recorded at Abbey Road Studios, along with a choir. As part of the recording process, a party was staged and recorded with its hubbub and background noise running throughout the record.
“The party and crowd sounds were recorded at the same sessions where we did the orchestra and the choir,” says Swindle. “And this was the glue that bound the album together. It’s included as a sound bed that runs throughout the whole record, to add a sense of coherency.”
Part of what gives the record its flow is the tracks used as transitions, with Ashton playing his semi-hollow body Gibson ES-335 across much of them. Some of his favourite moments on the album stem from the movement between tracks like Breathe into Curtains towards the album’s latter half.
“I’d be using Chase Bliss Mood and Lossy pedals to get a certain sonic or sound,” Ashton says. “To get from a verse to a chorus, there can be some sort of crazy wobble kind of sound to move from one section to another.
“Everything was pretty direct to the source in terms of instrumentation and how it was recorded, then we reamped to avoid too much DI signal. The Gibson 335 is one of the instruments closest to me. I’ve spent more time with that guitar than with any human in life. That’s one of my best friends and I’ve written all my biggest records on it.”
“We used the OP-1 from Teenage Engineering to sample a couple of things too, including a Danelectro sitar guitar on a lot of the tracks.”
The sonic tapestry of the album is expansive, moving from nineties hip-hop and neo-soul to vibrant flourishes of jazz and gospel. According to Swindle, there’s a push and pull between exploring new directions and ensuring the sound remains recognizably Kojey’s.
“Wherever Kojey’s at in his life and the ideas he wants to express will always come first,” he says. “We want to keep what makes his art his own, but balance this by drawing on themes or perhaps new instrumentation. He always comes first and our role is to enhance and elevate what he does.”
Ashton’s arrival as guitarist and producer has played a decisive role in bringing a new energy into what Kojey and Swindle have started.
“We have an underlying creative chemistry between us,” says Swindle. “We’d go into the studio and leave with music – that sounds normal, but not every session is like that. There’s an intuition and connection between us.”
We’d go into the studio and leave with music – that sounds normal, but not every session is like that
Ashton feels that his new sparring partners were open to the different “harmonic approach” he provided. “I was very excited to be in the room with Kojey and Swindle,” he says. “Everyone was open to it and there was a fearlessness to our work. Sometimes we’d have ideas, but you know they’re not quite right and you’re unwilling to settle for them. In these situations, you need to be patient and to keep searching.”
Don’t Look Down was shortlisted for the 2026 Mercury Prize, marking Kojey’s second nod after Reason to Smile was nominated in 2022. Raye took home the award on Thursday for her album This Music May Contain Hope, but we spoke to Swindle and Ashton prior to the event, and they remained resolutely grounded on how they viewed this industry acclaim.
“It’s our second time round which feels significant and it’s an award that everyone looks to,” Swindle says. “But I don’t really think about these things, I haven’t thought about winning or losing – I’m just happy to be here.”
For Ashton, being from New Zealand where there is a far smaller music industry, to be this far away from him and nominated is a career moment.
“It’s a big thing for myself and my team – coming from so far away and getting nominated is nuts,” he laughs. “But as Swindle says, we don’t do it for the awards, the main focus is to make music. It’s just great to be in the room.”
From our chat, their love for the process is abundantly clear. It’s what keeps both Swindle and Ashton moving forward and is their shared advice for any music-makers looking to follow in their creative footsteps.
“When you step into a songwriting room or studio, try and add value in some way, shape or form, even if it’s just the energy,” says Ashton. “Patience is a big thing, as is resilience. If you are passionate about the process and the act of making music, then this will always see you through.”
“If you’re a producer, try and make five beats a day,” adds Swindle. “If you can take the pressure out of your first idea being the best idea you’ve ever had in your life, and you’re used to coming up with something on the fly, then this will serve you well.”
