Gary Klebe Discusses Hamers and Shoes’ Close Encounter with Gene Simmons]

It’s hard to know why some bands don’t hit big, even when they have all the goods, like great songs and fantastic singers and players. Back in 1979, Shoes were one of those next-big-things after their indie release Black Vinyl Shoes generated positive industry buzz. It resulted in their signing with major label Elektra, and an album, Present Tense, stuffed full of winning and melodic power pop classics produced by Mike Stone (Queen, Journey).

Maybe they were caught up in The Knack backlash – who knows? But singer/guitarist Gary Klebe, along with partners Jeff and John Murphy on additional vocals, guitar, and bass, put out two more equally good albums before rejoining the indie ranks.

They built the well-regarded Short Order Recorder studio, recording and producing LPs for a bevy of up-and-coming bands, including Material Issue’s landmark International Pop Overthrow. Somehow, three guys from the musical nowhere of Zion, Illinois made their Beatles/Big Star dreams more or less come true.

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Shoes never stopped making music, and now Klebe has released a solo album, Out Loud, which he recorded himself with some help on drums from John Richardson (formerly of Gin Blossoms).

What prompted you to do a solo album now?

You’d think that with three songwriters in a band, there would be a plethora of songs that were shelved and available to use at some point. But we’ve never operated that way. We write songs for projects. Once we decide that we want to release a record, we start writing songs for it.

So, the answer is that I’ve never had extra songs. These were all written after the last Shoes record. I had a couple of things and I could just tell we weren’t ready to record yet – the timing just wasn’t right. I had nearly half an album. I thought, ‘Well, I’ll keep writing,’ and pretty soon I had close to a whole album.

I never had the confidence to even think about doing a solo record. It kind of took me by surprise in a way. It was suddenly almost there, and so I finished it off.

Shoes in the control room of their recording studio, Short Order Recorder, Winthrop Harbor, Illinois, March 16, 1983. Gary Klebe, Jeff Murphy, John Murphy, and Skip Meyer

(Image credit: Paul Natkin/Getty Images)

I’ve read that all the guitars on the early Shoes LP Black Vinyl Shoes were recorded direct. What are your thoughts on that approach?

There’s no one way of doing things that’s the best. As far as direct versus emulations or micing a real amp, one’s not better than the other. They all have their strong points. I’ve done many direct guitars through an MXR Distortion+ for leads. Other times I’ll use a Marshall.

There are no rules with that. Don’t listen if anybody tells you there’s one way of recording. I do like the combination of textures when you mix clean and distorted or acoustics together. I tend to mic cabs close and off-axis and angled in right on the edge of the speaker, which is the way a lot of people do it when they’re playing live.

Steve Albini said there’s just one way to record a guitar – it’s to go right down the center, down the axis, and have two different mics, two different distances. I’ve never done it that way.

When people hear their guitars and get used to their sound, they’re usually standing up and the speakers are blasting under them about knee level. That’s their reference as to what a guitar should sound like. All their EQ, controls, compression and everything is based on that particular setting. I think when you record that, you have to simulate that to a certain extent.

You produced Spooner, the band Butch Vig was in back in the early ‘80s, and helped him get started as a producer.

It was at the old studio of the Playboy Club in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. They had a really nice studio there. Every Corner Dance was the name of the record; Spooner were a great band – much different than Garbage. The common thing is they both have strongly written songs.

Butch had some experience with recording, but not a lot. He was always asking questions about things. Eventually I said, “You know, you work with a lot of other bands that come into your little setup and stuff. You should look at yourself as a producer.”

He says that moment put it in his head that maybe he would be a producer. I don’t know if I believe that – he’s probably embellishing that a bit! But he’s given me credit for getting him going.

When I went to see Garbage and got on their tour bus, he said to me, “You know, you’re the reason I’m doing this.” But he’s overly kind; just a great human being. I’m glad to see that he didn’t give up the band part either. He did both. I respect him a lot, and he turned into one hell of a producer. He surpassed me by a long way in a short period of time.

Shoes were early users of Hamer Guitars. Do you still have them?

Oh yeah, I have lots of Hamers! They’re based in Illinois, less than hour’s drive from me. We first heard about Hamers seeing Cheap Trick in the clubs. Rick Nielsen played a Hamer and so did Tom Peterson, and that’s all we needed because we worshipped those guys.

Gary Klebe

(Image credit: Courtesy Gary Klebe)

Somehow I ended up at a party with Jol Dantzig, who was one of the co-owners of Hamer. He talked about the possibility of having us play his guitars. That’s when we were getting ready to sign with Elektra. We went to the factory and saw the whole production process, including a few of Nielsen’s guitars, like the five-neck one and the one where his head is on the bottom upside down.

It was cool seeing things being made. We became friends with Paul Hamer and Jol Dantzig and pretty soon, we were buying the guitars. I still have a lot of them.

Shoes opened for Kiss once in 1982. What was that like?

It was a New Year’s Eve show in Rockford, Illinois, and somehow our agent got us on the bill. We thought, “Talk about a mismatch!” But it was cool – it was a nice big arena and everything; it just seemed like quite a mismatch.

But when we recorded our debut Elektra LP with Mike Stone, at The Manor in England, one of the women who worked there said she’d heard Gene Simmons on the radio, and he’d said we were his new favorite band.

Gary Klebe – Eyes Open Wide – YouTube
Gary Klebe - Eyes Open Wide - YouTube

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We thought, “Gene Simmons? Kiss? What the hell?” So when we had a chance to play with them, we think he might have been behind that. He’s very much into melodic rock – much more than what Kiss is.

A few years later on, we were about to record Stolen Wishes, which was an indie record. He suddenly decided he wanted us to be on his new label. I talked to him almost every night for a long time. He’d say, “Call me on the road. Let’s talk about music.”

He wanted us to do a record – but he also wanted us to do some things that we didn’t want to do, like redo some old Shoes songs and do some covers. We said, “We just can’t do it.” Eventually it just kind of fizzled out. But it was cool talking to him.

Many artists don’t like the power pop label. How do you feel about it?

After a while you just kind of give into it. I will say, if someone asks for a description, I kind of wince when I say it. I always thought all the bands I loved weren’t in any category other than rock ‘n’ roll. Power pop just seemed to be kind of limited.

What category would you say The Beatles are in? You would say; it’s ‘The Beatles’ – that’s the category. And that’s what every band wants to be

People say we’re right down the power pop pipeline – but that range must be pretty wide. I accept it as a good thing overall. But I think the biggest bands that have been around aren’t categorized like that, whether it’s Cheap Trick, Genesis, The Beatles or whomever.

What category would you say The Beatles are in? You would say; it’s “The Beatles” – that’s the category. And that’s what every band wants to be. I’m just glad we fit into something; some club.

Looking beyond your solo record, will Shoes put out any new music?

We’re best of friends. We have our ups and downs; we don’t always agree. But when we’re together, every conversation comes back to, “Should we do another record?”

It’s a lot of drudgery and it’s a big commitment. And there’s really not an audience. We end up doing records just because we want to do it; we do them for ourselves. So I can’t imagine there won’t be another Shoes record. In fact, I know there will be!